Current Affairs Podcast with Rebecca Jolly: Role Of Brands In 2020

Click here to listen to the podcast https://abc-music-talk.sounder.fm/episode/brands2020

00:00:08 - 00:05:01 You're listening to the ABC Music Talk Podcast, a show for those interested in the industry. This episode takes a look at the interaction between brands and the music industry. But first a reminder to go wrote to your videos. Rotor is for artists, managers, labels or anyone in the music industry who needs to create video content for promotion or monetization. Rotor makes it fast, easy and inexpensive to do that in one place. It to www dot CEO and click the Rotor logo on the home page to access a ten percent off discount for the service. Now, my guest for this episode is someone who has had a successful career in linking brands to music and vice versa. Welcome to the show, Rebecca Jolly. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming all the way to the Halleie and shortage, which I am also again, once again, using to record these podcast I do hope the sound quality is better than it often is. Nice to be in a treated room, for sure it is. It's nice to be outside with my own house a sure. Well, yet again, this is one of those interviews being conducted during during lockdown. We were just just before we hit record on that we've discussing the the the pros and cons of it. So you sort of have a bit more time and then you also don't at the same time. Yeah, absolutely lots of time sitting trying to do things and not having much success, I think. But I was very efficient at the beginning of this for a while and now it's just kind of everything's just rolled into the same kind of days over and over. It's difficult to get that point of separation sometimes, isn't it? Yeah, I'm sure most people were sitting at home and nodding along. So to those Com dding a well, let's hope not so fact very doubtful. Okay, so the the bulk of this interview be discussing an idea that we chatted about. Well, we had a sort of pre precool on this about this sort of the current state of the pandemic and sort of the impact on music and potentially what role brands could play. Yep, but first, as with everyone that comes on the show, they have to tell me about themselves. So this is where we go back to the beginning. I do have a decent percentage of people that are kind of in their early stages of their career. So I like to get them to like Sorr, I like my guests to tell the story of how did they end up? Well, how did they end up here in shortage with somebody called Alex Branson had it. How do we get to ball dream that? Well, it's a dream that that nobody has, but it is a dream nonetheless. In that sense good. So where did it all begin? What? How did you kind of because you've done lots of different things. They have of I mean I'd like to think that. I'd like to say that there'd been some kind of plan that led to all this, but really it's been that hasn't really been the case. I've kind of my career as kind of seeing me jumping around between music and brand worlds, music and Brown worlds, and kind of between events and media also, and it's all led up to a point where they all came together in one place, I think. I mean music, something that's just always been my kind of passion, of my blood. I went to university in Manchester and I think that's where I really discovered the music scene. You know, I just we came for a while, believe, on a massive drum and bass kid and, you know, got so so into the music scene and that's what really have really kind of paved the way, I think, for my eventual career in music. But before then, I mean I studied history at university and I think I've finished university and wasn't quite sure what my options were going to be. Certainly wasn't thinking of a career in music at that point and I feel like, I mean everyone kind of laid out the options, as teacher or Librarian says that studying history, like what do you do that? I know, become a historian. I mean it was great for a while because I did had very few hours at university that were I then I finished I was like, Oh God, what are we gonna do now? So decided to be a journalist and so I did my postgraduate journalists them qualification. My first job was actually working her non music related, but working for the PGA tour is a golf reporter, which is actually I mean, I had knew nothing about golf, which I think they quite lights, because I was kind of brought into write about them, more human side of the golfers, as it were. Traveled the world doing that for a while and then decided I was still up north at that point decided I wanted to move down to London and kind of see what else was going on in the journalism world. Moved Down to London and realized the main thing that was going on in the journalism world was that salaries were incredibly low. I pursue that for a while and then and then actually ended up getting a job at a PR agency, and so that kind of started my work with brands really and, if any, really interesting. I worked...

00:05:01 - 00:10:01 ...with a lot of kind of brands, typically partnering them with different cultural pursuits so they could reach their audience in some way, and you know that that's where I got a bit of my first understanding of kind of how the brand world was to work and what they needed to achieve from their marketing and work. Within a few years of doing that, actually, somebody got in touch with me and mentioned the fact that there was a music company in Amsterdam who was looking for someone to run one of their grand partnerships, and I had kind of been a number a few years at that point and thought that it could be an interesting change of pace, change of scene to move to Amsterdam. Wasn't really had didn't know the company, so decided to go over to Amsterdam and see what it was all about, and I'm the person who connected me into it. Was told me that they produced these huge events for Fiftyzero people and everyone dressed in white and it was I was like what, what this is? During the time as well, when London, the London scene, the music scene, was so incredibly underground. It was all very grungy and punky and the band scene. I used to promote a couple of nights in London, one of three thies three and one at ninety three four east and it was really kind of a nice really Gret so much fun, so like filthy and fun and amazing. And then went to Amsterdam to see what all this was about and it caught this person was right. There was fiftyzero people dressed in white in a stadium in Amsterdam and it was probably one of the most mind blowing experiences of my life, like this huge event for twelve hours and people dance from start to finish the most incredible powertechnic displays I'd ever seen, light shows. It was it was incredible styles like okay, let's do this for a couple of years. So look came to work for them in it the event was called sensation. The company was called ID and tea. They also produce all kinds of incredible festivals like mystery land and Tomorrowland and q dance, which is the hard style things. So that was my first real immersion into, I guess, the music industry side of things. So I was I ran all their other partnerships for sensation with Samsung and then kind of worked in project management across a lot of their are the festivals. So really caught the bug and caught the bug as it related to electronic music as well. It's but previously that hadn't really been my kind of area necessarily. So, yeah, what'd there for a couple of years and really started to understand and actually had the point of a brand being involved in something like that, both from the music entities point of view but also from the brand point of view, for them to be creating an experience that so many people were so kind of involved in and so just, I guess, kind of it added value to their experience for the night, kind of prior to it, after the event, in content as well, the model that most brand partnerships are these days. So I did that for a couple of years. And then I decided I think I missed everything in London and decided to move back to London and at the time, kind of continuing that Brandon music theme I'd that had been there was an agency that had really caught my eye for a while at the time called splendid communications, and they were doing really interesting work with brands in music. It was founded by a couple of guys who were real music heads but wanted to have a kind of a proper job and a business and so set up an agency and they they one of their big clients was smirnoff and it was that kind of golden era brands doing really great things. They did create smirnoff creative grants where they put money into people with great ideas in nightlife and it was yeah, it was that that kind of moved me back to London and I started working with them and again kind of immerse myself in the music and brand world. I think also coming from the music world directly then back into the Brom world and we actually ended up brokering a partnership between smirnoff, who was eur clients, and sensations. So I actually brought sensation from Amsterdam to London with manifers. The sponsor is kind of part of that, and we did it at the Oto arena and it was yeah, it was. It was interesting, very, very kind of interesting time. And not after a couple of years there we took on a new streaming service as a clients, little known at that point, called spotify. I've heard of it, even me. There's probably a few people in meetings who said that at the time no one was I remember. Yeah, absolutely happen, obviosolutely. So we were working with spotify in London and then it was at the time when they decided they were going to launch in the US. So I that I moved to the US ten years ago now. Actually, in fact it was around this time, ten years ago that it was fielded in a meeting and I don't think they'd even finished the sentence before I accepted and volunteered to go to New York. So I moved to New York with the intention of being there for a couple of years to launch spotify. They're effectively or work on the team that was launching spotify. So I spent my...

00:10:01 - 00:15:00 ...first year in New York having the time of my life really, but also working on establishing spotify as a brand in the US and as part of that we did actually was part of the team, we did the first spotify activation at south by southwest. So we did a spotify house for ten days. If the time is a funny thing. I don't know if you've been south by southwest, but it felt like we were there for a year. In the end, I think time to it's on a whole different meaning in Austin, but we we did the spot of my house over there, so that you know, the premise of which was to really establish spotify as a brand in in that kind of world and also just kind of bring a load of emerging artists through the spotify house, and I mean it's great. We had like Alabama shakes and so many great bands just kind of playing in the garden at the spotify house and it was yeah, it was really interesting and again we had brand sponsors involved, so it was just still this kind of convergence of the brand and music world. And what was your role at spotify that time? My kind of a bit of a highbrid role. I was Lee. I was the US lead for the agency that I moved over with, for splendids and we did. We kind of did a cross section of work for spotify. We did a lot of their PR staff, General Marketing Production and kind of producing the activations. We also kind of helped with the brand deals. They did a big deal with Cocacola at that time. So we also kind of produced all the marketing and various different elements of content and what what have you around that. So general marketing really. So yeah, and so that was my first year in New York. Really was working on spotify over there, which was a quite a nice introduction to the country, and then I spent I've kind of towards the end of that year. I idntee, the company that I'd worked for in Amsterdam, got back in touch and said we've a decid they told me they'd decide had to launch in the US and would I be interested in running their partnerships division and they were going to be launching sensation, the first white party, mystery land tomorrowland all their different kind of properties across the US. So I decided to do that, but it felt like a great kind of jump across back into the music world proper. So yeah, so started in I think the January and within two months they'd announced their acquisition by SFX, and I can see laughing. So I feel like you know that there's some stories coming. Yeah, no, I mean it never looked crazy at any point. It was crazy. It was really, really crazy. It was. I mean we went from I went from this kind of Dutch company of like lovely people who I had known for a long time, who were doing amazing things, who had nothing, no motivation other than creating the best possible things they could and unknowing and understanding the culture of the world that they represented more than anyone. And it was to work with people. It was so invigorating to work with people who had that passion for it. And and I can remember, but we were in Miami, from Miami Music Week, when they announced with the announcement of the SFX acquisition, and I it was it was interesting. I did I can remember thinking this is going to go one way or the other, and you know, this could either be huge and who of it all and landmark, or it might not be the right thing for them to do. And I mean it was perhaps both, I think, in the end. But and from there onwards was a really crazy few years, honestly. That I it was it was a kind of a roller coaster and but I came out when I when I came out the other side of it. I it took me a couple of months and looked back and realized I'd never learned so much in that time as I did during that time. It effects just the kind of immersion into that world and the crazy things that happened. But I mean we so ID and T was SF x. As for people who don't know about this, sex was actually created as a it by Bob Silliman, the late Bob Silliman, who was very kind of fascinating, enigmatic man who he'd he had started American idol. He'd started live native, kind of original live nation, and this was got his swan song. Essentially, he'd seen what was happening in electronic music and decided to come together with a series of different people like and put together a company to and to acquire all the best electronic music companies in the world essentially and create a behemous entertainment company along with Shelley Finkle and Joseph Rashkoff and all those people. So he so he pulled that together, went on an acquiring mission. There was actually I think there was a time. A lot of people was talked to me about this at every single electronic music in the electronic music coming in the world always said that they were waiting...

00:15:00 - 00:20:04 ...for the phone call from Shelley Finkel and it usually came, which always makes me laugh because I had I had my own phone call from Shelly Finkel at one point, which was actually how I ended up meeting my husband. Oh My love story match made me with my husband. And Yeah, so anyway, so as effects acquired all these companies, of which idnt was the largest, and so as the person who is heading up partnerships and revenue for ID andt, I ended up being pulled into their kind of, I guess, the Steering Committee and Board of how to kind of decide the direction sfx took, especially from a revenue points of view, right in the early days. So I had a series of very interesting weekend meetings. It was always the weekend, I think it was, which I think was a bit of a power move. They got everyone together from Duncan Stadheim, from IDENTT and Matthew Adele, who was running beat bought at the time, and Disco Donne and all these people were kind of pulled into a room with shelley and Joe and Bob Heading at the meetings and there was always around twelve to fourteen of us and it they were just the wildest meetings I've ever seen and I'm sure some of the stories I have from these meetings are probably not suitable for podcast, but they it was a bit of a baptism of funbe seen. Listens his podcast. It's actually feel free, free tell us all the I mean there was some opening things. Some are definitely not suitable for podcast, but there was depth. There was a moment, I can remember a moment and the person shall remained nameless, but Bob Silliman decided in the middle of a meeting, stops the meeting and decided he didn't like what the guy was wearing at all. Like do he his like ten, I won't have anyone wearing these clothes in my meeting. Take all your clothes off now. And the Guy, the guy obviously protested and he was like no, no, called his PA and and was like how come his a hundred dollars going by? This guy some new clothes. In the meantime, take off your clothes and basically forced understand the table and take his clothes off and then put them in the ways, paper in and set fire to them. And this is the kind of this and I was a kind of early s like they. It was a I wasn't quite sure to make of any of it, but I mean I feel like that like kind of laid the president for what happened for the rest of the time at SFX. It was. Wow, it was. Can I just say, maybe focusing on the wrong stuff at that point, a little track. Well, I mean, but then quite abruptly back to mad with these clothes. Oh, I mean, I just they did. The clothes were fine. The clothes are fine. I think it was just a bit of a Bob Party trip, to be honest. But I mean that was the kind of thing that used to go down all the time. And but that's obviously a huge distraction from what we were doing from a work point of view. And we you know, with this whole acquisition roots that sx went down, all the companies are crying the the obviously the objective of board of it was to create a business and and Bob often said like this is going to be my twenty, this is my twenty six company and it's going to be my most successful one yet and then I'm done. And so he you know, the ambition was, and these meetings were it was. It was really fascinating. The ambition was to make it bigger than ever, and I hand starting everyting that before, where the revenue generating strategy was to bring in five brands that paid fifty million dollars each to be involved with it for the privilege of being involved with their effects. And so it was. It was a kind of a real pivotal moment. I think in understanding like that, if you kind of had the balls to do it, you can make somethink like there's some of the parts, or make something really, really big if you just put yourself out there and kind of laid a claim to it and gave someone the reason and the confidence to be involved in it. So we I mean, and that obviously didn't happen in the end. You know, we did a lot. We worked across a load of really interesting brand partnerships. We did an incredible deal with Budwiser, with Marnaf, with tmobile, with various different brands, Master Card, and it was, you know, how does the pitch go? To go just come along with this little thing that we're doing. Old fifty million, yes, just, yes, no, no, I'm sure that's in the pettycash somewhere. How does that pitch look? That's big, great, that's a big thing for any of those brands. Oh, it's a huge thing, and I we did. You know, we didn't. Ever, I hate we never got there with the fifty million dollar number, but we are substantial part of the way. They're just the confidence and also the the you know, there was a lot to sell that the audience ctainly touch points, so many touch points and such a huge audience, and I think it was it was just going out there and kind of putting that to a brand really like the I think that the thing that was the main selling point was actually the downfall of the company in the end, because we were selling this in credit, which is something that has always excited me about working in brands and music, which is selling that passion and that the kind of like the RAW, the raw passion that...

00:20:06 - 00:25:00 ...people feel about music and the energy and like to for it to offer a brandon opportunity to tap to tap into that and to tap into that world where people are kind of most connected to everything that happens around them at that time. And I think, I mean, I think there's a lot of reasons that things kind of sparred the way that they did, but one of them, I think, was the fact that by bringing sex in and creating a business model that was a really kind of strict business model, stripped away a lot of that. And so with that kind of you know, by when you have something that's such a strong, kind of passionate thing about someone, it's really hard to over over structure it and over kind of monetize it. And you know, this was from a world where one of the most amazing guys over kind of works under is don't concert, a home from I dnt, and he this is the guy who every time, like two days before any event or festival that they ever did, like mystery land, for example, who would walk around the site, and don't walk around the site and every single point around the site he'd be like we need more here, we need more day go here, this needs to be a better we need more pirotechnics, we need this to look kind of bigger and larger than life. We need more fish shooting water in this lake over here. And he to the point where he would, you know, any much. It's a great film in this I would be so, I you know, I would. I would imagine that there's probably something in the words right first to wait for number of years before things are safe and legal to do. But there's there'sn't many, many stories, but he used to. So he would do that to the point where any margin that there was on the festival didn't exist anymore by this time the festival doors open. But he didn't care because he wanted to create the best things ever. And then when you're acquired by a company whose goal is to make money, and that's they're kind of main objective, that goes and that's that magic and it's kind of chipped away out, I think. And so, I mean we had some great success. We did a couple of mystery lands. We did Cup cover of tomorrow lands over in the US as well. One of them was a disaster due to the weather, I believe in and so I believe it was. And Yeah, then I believe the fire festival run into a weather issue. Is World. It seems we are common theme. It really does. So I've I was there for four years, I think, and went through there was a whole roller coaster of things going on. There lots of change all the time and it was around this time which actually kind of opened the doors to what was my most recent job, I guess you could call it. I mean it was a job. I was watching things unraveled at a rate of not actually as effects and and kind of trying to understand what the path forward was from that. And I was contacted by the CEO of Mixmag the British Music magazine, and they he mentioned the fact that they wanted to launch in America and would I be interested in running that? And you're back in the UK at this point. No, no, no, I was still in yes, in New York. Yeah, this is about five or six years ago now. So No, I was still in New York, and so I said no and then he asked me again and I said No. And I could hope I from having gone from this very kind of large scale events and you know, as we talked about, this kind of huge ambitions financially it. But it took me a while to get my head back into the thought of how to work with a small media company and what the opportunity could do with that, because I didn't have any kind of interest or experience in traditional media advertising or how to generate revenue through traditional media channels. And so I thought. But then I thought twout. Everyone actually thought that it seemed like quite a good challenge. So I decided to join them, and I think the fact that I didn't have media experience is what actually kind of created a very different path for mixmag in the US from how it was positioned in the UK. So we we got going over there. There was me and one of the Guy Nick to Cosmo, who's the editor, and he kind of headed up creative and editorial and I head up the whole business and and revenue and all those things that went with it. And approached it similar to how I'd approached previous brand partnerships in music, and we just started to rather than kind of selling the just the audience or just the media space, we started to go after you know, put our balls on the table. I think, a lesson I'd learned a bit from Bob Silliman and started to go after the brand briefs and pictures that were going to the likes at the time of advice and cornerstone and fader and started to win some of them. So we built the business in the US really dramatically quite quickly and bill the teams in New York and La we were running the mix my labs. We had great sponsors for that. We but we were doing really interesting into integrated campaigns with brands like...

00:25:02 - 00:30:02 ...it's mown off again, which I feel is a recurring theme in most of the job, but with music smote of fits. I mean it is just with one of those bracy it is, but I feel like it's that's this kind of more or less coming to an end. I think they've gone in a different direction now, but it they were really synonymous. It's US athing that. I think we'll get onto a bit later on. Yes, yes, definitely so. We we did some great campaigns with those guys. We did where they would sponsor the lab, but we made a load of document music documentary series. We did a lot of campaigning as well for gender equality but also like a quality across all under represented groups in the music industry. We created some really beautiful we created a series of retreats in Joshua Tween La and in California and in upstate New York where we brought under represented artists through these retreats and produced music wisdom. We created documentaries for them and it was it was really like, really, really interesting. We did a lot of and rewarding, I guess, really rewarding. It was a really great pivotal time and I think we actually made a real kind of noticeable shift and change. And that's when it really excites me when a brand gets involved in music. I think it's working with a brand to understand what they need to achieve, but also how they can, and we'll come to this later. I think we've been talking about it a lot, but how they can actually really make a difference in the culture that they're investing in. And when a brand agrees to do that and understands that to do that, they're going to get such a stronger affinity than a brand who, you know, badges something or whatever, then it can really really work. So you know, and from there on, if we followed INS is a very long kind of history of my career, but we've followed that with a number of other really great, interesting brand deals, with the likes of something and Waiver Tech Company, and then Max my decided we'd had really great funtial success in the US, so they decided to acquire Krang, their rock and punk publication and also the face the dormant kind of style and Culture magazine. So Mixed Mike then became wasted talent as an umbrella company and we ended up as a kind of independent media company with those three titles underneath those and running all those and continuing to grow in the US and it. We then did a huge global deal with budweiser again to create a really interesting global music program that was really kind of shining a light on creativity and cultural creativity specific to different countries around the world. So we were in India and Vietnam and Thailand and, you know, all over the world, just kind of really shining a light on the culture and the music that came from those places. So really, really enjoyable and so I was there for five years. We grew hugely over that time and then and to the round a year ago, which is when I decided to cut to kind of move on from there. So that was my last job job I can in music. And you're back in the UK and I back in the UK and happen. That happened in over summer, over some I mean it's something that it's always been on the cards. I moved to New York for two years and ten years later I finally moved back to the UK. I think the pull of family and things and it also felt like the right time. It was a New York was crazy this year, as the whole world was, but you know, it definitely felt like if there was a time to leave it was and kind of get closer to family net than I was the time. Well, yeah, I was talking to about our friend in Commons yes who's still there, and he was sort of mulling over this prospect of Thanksgiving this coming up in Christmas. Of course, yeah, it's going to be really it's the constant dilemma. There's a lot of Brits and a lot of Australians and lots of other people in New York and it is the it's the constant conversation, you know, and then the years creep by, but I mean it was it. I had such an incredible time in New York and I think the journey through from working on the team launching spotify over there to becoming part of idity in this huge entertainment acquisition and then kind of going into running a media company over there. It was. It was a really interesting journey and I think working on all different kind of angles and sides of the music and brand world and understanding what could be done with them. It was definitely a decade that I think has a lot was achieved and I think as kind of laid the finations for whatever comes next. I mean where the moment I'm kind of in the process, somewhat accidentally, of setting up my own business where I'm working with various different companies within the music industry, whether it be labels or media companies, and helping them realize their potential and especially at the moment after the year that has been two thousand and twenty pivot, slightly in some cases, to be able to all kind of broaden what they do from a product standpoint, to be able to generate more revenue and kind of scale and grow their businesses. So all that's come on the...

00:30:02 - 00:35:01 ...back of that decade in New York and the work experience there. I think, yeah, as lots of serendipity and all of that, and we'll come back to that in just a second. I did just have a question, as you were talking earlier about your first sort of that moment of walking into the first white party again. On Earth is going on here, because it really it triggered a memory on I was in Amsterdam at Ade, the Big Art Music Conference there, and there was a presentation by beat port, but it had some of the s effects exacts. Yeah, in and around of you may have been one of them, I don't remember, but I think I was definitely there. I mean beat puts interesting. Beat port was the music platform that underpinned all s x has event and live acquisitions, and I am be put's actually one of the Kouts I'm working with again at the moment. I feel everything comfortable circling some way. So, and I just finished this stint there as well. Yeah, ROB, my boy. So, but the question I had was it was it was something party came from the memory of the Romano Conversation I had who'd been yet at the end of enemy. So there's some magazine thing there, but it was more about sort of back in those days, and I think you've sort of answered this about your description of the ID and t exact who, yeah, would just be like yeah, let's just do this and let's do the other. I mean, have you seen sort of that that that change as sfx sort of came into it, because beat port told this story and they spun a great story at that, at that confidence thing that they did at ad which was we are going to essentially use data to understand the audience better. And and there was that sort of immediate link between people going to an event and listening to certain music and then the impact that might then have on music they might purchase. Roubeat poor. Yeah, and this was the story they were it was a room full of record companies, it was people that were supplying music into be port. I mean, how close did how close did they ever sort of get to that? I mean did they? Did they have a really sort of make that link between the live and the kind of the digital side of things, Sims of audience? That's a tough question actually, I because I think I feel like everybody's kind of lent into the data a little bit and understands more about their audience sus spending habits and, you know, the other areas that they're interested in, which I think makes for a brand set uneasier brand cell. But because there were there were things around like they I think, if memory service correct, Urfid tags were going to be used to track people as they moved around the different stages and rooms and things like that, and it was an it. Again, my memory of it was sitting there going that actually sounds really like it sounds like genius right, and actually, if you are s effects and you do own all of these different pasts of the business, you can actually do that. It was definitely the plan for a while and I think they're all kind of plans relating to it as well, and I remember there was actually a conversation about creating based on that and on that data, and Ai Club that was almost like a kind of living, breathing club and that tapped in to everything from people's mood to whatever they're doing around the venue at the time and responded to it accordingly. And it was that progressed quite far and then didn't get off the ground in the end. But I think that it's always the planet, because I've and I but I think that the main driving force for that kind of activity is always to monetize further the audience and I think that there's a limit to how far you can commoditize the audience and I think the it's it's, for me, a brand partnership or working with brands and getting brands to be able to invest money into music and the audience to enjoy music works better and when it's simpler and when a brand is simply adding some great value that doesn't over complicate thing, but it's a beautiful surprise or something is doing something great and putting back into the scene in some way, and I think that it just I there's there's a kind of hesitancy, I think, among the audience for these things that over complicates their experience and that but doesn't have an immediate payoff, you know, and so I think, I mean I don't know what your experience has been with it and over here in the UK. I mean I've literally since I came back to the UK I've not set in a music but any very subtly. So I don't know how things have changed over here, but that really dropped off, I think in the use. It was of such a huge push for a while, five, six years ago and everyone was trying to connect everyone, digitate to everything and swipe everything as you went past and I just don't think people wanted it that much. So I think there's a little limits how much you can come out to ties the audience for that purpose. And and so I think that we look at beatport is great actually in terms of the data that they can pull in from their audience because of their spending habits and just very easy to kind of track where they are living online. But I think to take it further than that and to try and too hard and connect Digit Hill and live it's not always that smooth. And Yeah, you know, going to be my experience with them. So you've already mentioned t twenties. Been Hell of a year. Hell of a years for...

00:35:01 - 00:40:02 ...the globe, though, which is which is useful, I think in some respects, you know, in the showing that you're not the only one, I think. Yeah, I mean you know, it's sort of put everyone in the it's like a level playing field in some respects. Yeah, and so so your the word that you've been doing. Brands and the spirit have you seen? Have we talked about this a bit before. There's been some changes. Yet, the change and with the way with which they position themselves, the sorts of things that they might attach themselves to. I'm going to go with travel as a big one. You know, a lot of a lot of lifestyle brands will attach themselves so that sort of very beautiful world of, you know, clean beaches and far away places and that sort of aspirational kind of like concepts. With how have they have they, if you seen them deal with that? Have they changed? Have what are they try to do? Not necessarily just about travel, by the way, just in general, and I mean it's been definitely been a funny year. And I think you talk about travel, also music. You know, that's the main reason we're here and talking about this is they're both sectors that just have buy and large cease to exist as certainly the live music and the element where brands can really really engage with our audience. They've they've obviously, you know, kind of hit and huge stumbling block this year, but I think kind of partly as a result of that, but also partly just because everybody's been hedging their bets and not sure what direction the world was going to go in next, I think brands have pulled back from all of this kind of activities this year. I mean I think it's very few brands who have constant, who have continued to do what we, I guess we're called Cultural Marketing and actually trying to kind of reach consumers through their passion points. This year I think there's been a lot of either pivoting and kind of trying to get behind something related to the pandemic or something that can help, or other brands have just focused on key business and kind of battening down the hatches and securing things by focusing on their essential business and essential business marketing and kind of making sure their cells are still going through or that. So everything, as well as the music industry taking a hit with everything that's happened about it. You know, I'm sure we've talked about it so many guests previously, of the last few months. You know, the hit the live industry, how that's impacted artists. There's also been this impact of brands pulling back their spend in this industry as well, and and I but I do think. I mean we're speaking in late November and there's been a real change in the last month or so, I would say. We're brands are starting to sit up and look about and figure out how they can position themselves in two thousand and twenty one. So it's do you think that the brands are now just looking at this being the version of new normal. So we're once before they had all these sort of multiple touch points and things that they could do, music venues being a high point of visibility, perhaps even ambassador campaigns. Do you think they're having to sort of end a just for what they think is going to be essentially the new normal? I think so, and I think some did it quickly. Some, you know, some kind of pivoted within a month or two and started kind of putting their weight and their money behind things. I. Live streaming, of which there was so much in those early stages of the pandemic, but I but a lot haven't. I think there was an understandably a huge wave in two and twenty of brands just pulling back from doing anything and I think with the I felt, I feel a month on month people were still kind of waiting to see what would shake out and there was, you know, everyone was fight starting to kind of think about finding their feet again. A few months into the pandemic when everything hit as it relates to the race issues and black lives matter, and that really came to the fort and there was a huge phase from all the brands I work with and speak with about being really anxious or nervous about putting a foot wrong or being perceived to be tone deaf or something that they did landing incorrectly, and it was, I think that, combined with obviously everyone needing to focus from a brand point you needing to focus on their key core business and kind of make sure that they're their business and their sales were in a secure position sought, saw them all really pulling back from cultural marketing across the board. So obviously music, where there was less opportunity to market anyway, but all of the sectors and everyone the brand activity really took a hit and now, as we talk in kind of late November, I feel like there's definitely the brands are starting to kind of pull their head above the parapet and start to figure out how they can show up next year and what they're going to do. I personally, I'm working with some brands who are doing really, really great things and who are addressing what has happened this year, the way that people are feeling the fact that there is such a need for connectivity and and some of the brands I'm working with a really starting to try and understand that and see how they can facilitate the path forward in, as we call it, the new normal, or however that may be, but also disappointing for personally, a disappointing...

00:40:02 - 00:45:02 ...lack of brands really kind of showing up and stepping up to the plate as it as it relates to, I guess, the sectors and the areas that they've relied on so heavily for cultural marketing and orders connection and previously, and this is the thing that you everyone we spoke the really kind of caught my my attention because obviously funding and support for those that have literally had their entire careers businesses just decimated yet by the fact they cannot do what they had been doing for however many years they were doing it before. And of course, funding into the music industry can come from various sort of points. You know, maybe you're recording artist there yet you can get an advance from a record company or a songwriter to get it from your publisher. That's gives you cash road to exist in the world and be who you are, or it's VC money, perhaps you know where you sell a party catalogical ever. But brands have also always been, you know, whether it's through synchronization for an advert or something like that, or whether it is just brand abassadors. Yeah, and artists become those, and the thing that you said was they have relied upon attaching themselves to these these these but this part of cultures so long and have had so much from that in terms of their positioning for their product, of a product within the within the world. They actually have a duty of care. Yeah, and this is what we spoke about last last time we spoke actually, and it's become something that, over the past few months, have spent the last sixteen, Seventeen years and, fundamentally, the last decade, working with brands who use this industry and every single part of it, like you say, from the SINC deals, from to the artist, to the live events, to the platforms that access this audience and to convert sales for whatever it is they're selling. untimately, you know, that's the end goal for all of it. They've capitalized on this industry to such a huge degree and and in some cases contributed to it really effectively, of course, and but they, you know, they've chosen to align themselves with this culture and this seems to be it's become a kind of almost flastical obsession of I'm really of the last couple of months is this realization that a lot of the brands who have attached themselves so strongly to it are really noticeably visible, invisible, at the moment. They're not kind of stepping up to the plate. They're still sitting back and waiting to see what happens and waiting to see when it might be safe to re emerge and to realign themselves with this and and, you know, reattach themselves to it. And it's that I've become really kind of incentivized, I think, to try and hurry this process up, because I yet these brands have used this industry for such a long time and if they don't step up now, the government isn't stepping up in any way. There's not that many of the ways to safeguard the future of the music industry anymore. And if the brands don't, the culture that they relied on so heavily for so long to be able to do their marketing and to be able to reach the audience isn't going to exist in the same way. And you know, they can't just wait for I feel very strongly that they can't just wait for other people, people who are really struggling here to try and rebuild themselves and get themselves to a success level again, where brands then deems it's safe, I suppose, to realign themselves with it, and I think that there has to be this movement of brands stepping up and kind of rescuing or safeguard in the industry to a degree, and my perspective, I'm working with all the music companies I'm working with at the moment in slightly different ways. I'm kind of working with them to create a proposition, whether it's through the record blow and working with asteroids, support is to kind of support this new generation of artists that are coming through that aren't able to break through a time like this when there's no live and no kind of marketing that goes around live, whether it's with a beep port for example, or whether it's with a music magazine, I'm kind of working with them to create programs that incentivized and try and bring brands into to contribute back into rebuilding this culture, and it's kind of part by design, part by default, as is the way with most things that I do in my career, it becomes the thing that is being my goal really is to get these brands who, and there's a good handful of them, who have relied so heavily on electronic music especially, who, I feel, yeah, really need to step up to the plate and to kind of give back and rebuild this culture. And my perspective, from a for a brand's point of view, is that this it can only go well for them, you know it, whatever steps they take to put back into this culture, which is really, really struggling, they're going to emerge as the savior, essentially, and so it feels like a bit of a Nobrain, is me, but there's still seems to be a quite a degree of caution and or just, I don't want to say laziness necessarily,...

00:45:02 - 00:50:02 ...but just there's definitely an element of people wanting to kind of attach themselves to things when they're riding high, but not being there enough, I don't think, when when things are struggling. Yeah, well, and so it's, I guess, great to be part of a company like beat sports, who has infrastructure that can actually offer them immediate touch points with the yeah, segmentation of the audience. And so have you been finding that some of the has it kind of switched around, like in terms of the brands coming in perhaps once upon a time saying we want to do this. Is it now? Is it switching around to you sort of going? Well, actually, have you guys thought about doing this? Was it always that way around? Now it? I mean it's it always has been, case by case. I think some brands have come with their check books and wanted to be told how to connect with the music industry, and other brands have got a really strong idea of what they want to do. I think at the moment, I've seen the last couple of months, brands are definitely kind of venturing forth and trying to understand what they can do, but with dramatically reduced budgets against what they used to have previously. And but you know, there are a few who are coming forward and wanting to wanting to do something that addresses the State of two thousand and twenty. But I don't think we're I think we still have a long way to go before we can get brands to really contribute effectively in a way that's going to make a big difference and to these brands have kind of presumably they have sort of policy divisions and kind of parts within their organization that is looking at actually, what are we saying here, and sort of, you know, just checking that press release before it goes out, all that video sort of thing that they did and, yeah, to make it sort of not be I think so. I think so, and I think that they've definitely pulled back, I think, from too much of their putting forward, too much of their own messaging, and I think actually that's where it's really beneficial for them to partner with authentic, kind of trusted companies within the music industry who been around for a long time. It's kind of a safe option. I think. If they can create they can lean on a music company who knows, whether it's a label or whatever it is, who knows how to rebuild and how to connect with their audience and how to communicate with them and relies on them to build a program that they can facilitate, then I think it's a lot more of it's a lot safer way for them to get involved in this than trying to create something themselves. That I mean they're quite right to because of the fact things can land incorrectly, as they often do with brands. So it sounds like a good piece of advice. To a brand at the moment is to just pay attention to the part of the industry that you can attach yourselves to and listen to what I actually is important to the audience and just be part of that conversation be, I feel, be available these things. So I think they and I think and proactive. I think they need to. It's a bit of a call to arms ready for brands who have relied really heavily on where. It might not be music, it could be art, it could be anything. All these sets are really struggling and look at how they've benefited from it or what they've done and how they've worked with them over the last few years and kind of figure out how Takee r active steps to contributing to the to the regrowth of the industry, I suppose. And so the sorts of things that they can offer is obviously, you know, some money, right, that's always helpful, but but I guess also like the Ad Inventory, and that could be, you know, on sort of terrestrial TV or I could be within spotify and the ad funded sort of part of that. So are some of those ideas just to kind of perhaps focus less on their core product and actually try and pull through some of the artists music or there whatever they're they're up to. Yeah, I mean I think they can use all their tools in their arsenal really to and apply them in some way. I mean and all the ones that they used to use or, you know, they used to put their media spend against this kind of area and and a play it now, you know, don't wait for things to pick up again, but a play it now to be able to help the industry repair itself. You know, we talked a lot about the artist needing help kind of having a leg up as well. But every huge part for brands, and of four brands is the venues, is live venues. You know, this is how, especially when you were so much with fashion brands or drinks brands, and is that kind of live experience that is really important to them. And there's I think there's a lot of work to be done around that, around kind of securing the venues, because they're going to need them. All these brands are going to need them. And, teacher, they need people to be drinking beer in these venues whilst they listen to music. And you know, they they're not going to be there if they're not proactive about putting their support into it a bit and there's there's so many exciting programs that you can create with that a brank and facilitate on. Obviously financially is a huge part of it, but that a brand can facilitate to be able to rebuild these different areas of...

00:50:02 - 00:55:02 ...the struggling industry. They could actually use the venues as perhaps places where they film things, right, I mean Italy. Yeah, yeah, get it involved. Have you seen any of them? You know, like in the music industry, the major record companies came out and said that they were going to put a million, hundred million, ten million, whatever the number was that they they gave to like and set up a task force, and they had these kind of this sort of like rhetoric that was coming around. Or the companies, IE, I'm sporting them. Yeah, jump from empire, you know, we did a whis for change compilation album and you know, all the money's going through to helping what's going on, especially round black lives matter in particular, something very close to the culture of that company. Have you seen brands do something similar? Have they sort of earmarks, you know, both human resource as much as cash to do it? In a sort of formal way, or is that still lacking? Is that something you would advise them to do? Not Enough. Five, there's there's kind of murmurings of things and there's a few people, like I say, who have stepped up and they're doing small programs that are about kind of moving forward from the year that has been two thousand and twenty and how to kind of celebrate the new world as it is moving forward. But no, not enough. And I think it's been largely been down to the music industry to save itself and it's kind of crazy. Beat pots are really interesting examples. So because they've been doing, I think you know, of the reconnect series that people have been doing and they you know, they started it was the thing that both you and I we have a twitch accounts. Because of that we'd shift the age demographic of twitch absolute ches. I know, I never thought I would have one, but I do now. But so beat port is obviously they're kind of on a music store and they have they created the reconnect series to be able to raise money, started in March and April to raise money for those industries tho or those sectors in the music industry struggling because of Covid so they did as so they did a couple of like weekend long, thirty six hour streams the six artists and raise loads of money for different sectors within the music industry. Then they moved on to do something similar for by roots, which, I mean God, this really has been a year, hasn't it? Almost forget that they did a reconnect series sporting by root and raising money for the music and art industry and Lebanon. They then moved into raising money for mental health charities and those who've been really, really affected this year from a mental health perspective. And it's, you know, the music industry is struggling and the music industry is stepping up to help everyone else, to help themselves. Have everyone else. Then it's you know, it's so amazing that they've done this program and I don't I there's rarely a personally speak to in the music industry or otherwise, who doesn't know of the great work beeple has done through reconnect. And it seems to me that, you know, I think it's always the way that, whatever happens in life, it's like the people who need help are the ones who help others more and you know, I'm not kind of suggesting that there haven't been brands who've really taken a hit this year. Of course they have, but it's all relative and I think that there's yeah, I you said it really well when we first started talking, but they kind of have this duty of care and I think that, you know, they are the ones who need to come forward a bit now, I think it, but you know, time will tell them. I'm you know, I've had some really interesting conversations with people who've been receptive to figuring out how they can play a bigger role in two thousand and twenty one. But there's definitely still also a just getting through the last few weeks of the year. Yeah, for sure, which I can empathize with. Yeah, absolute and look, I think you know we can be hard on NAM when we like, but I think we've seen across the every industry, every every part of the world is that the that period of adjustment is is difficult. You know that that whole I mean I know it from a sort of very micro level. I have a very small bar with a couple of my friends and yeah, the constant changes in what government, you know, imposed upon us in terms of when we can open, how we can open, who we can have in, how they're going to see what they're got to do when they're in there. Yeah, just keeps and it changes every week. It feels like I mean it doesn't, but you know what I mean. Yeah, it does feel like that. So I guess, for you know, a lot of these brands that have, you know, for so long, as you said, like for so long, just being like well, this is how we go to market. Yeah, this is how we launch that new product or how we boost sales during a particular period of the time of the year, you know, and and they're all a probably a bit caught of guard, I would imagine, totally and also there. I mean it's in if we're look being really honest about these things and a kind of understanding where brands are coming from. And you know, meant much of my frustration over the past how many as are working with them, has been that these the brands who have got the money to be able to invest effectively into something like this, are also the brands where there is a huge amount of red tape. And it's like the analogy I always uses. It's like trying to turn a tanker. You know and they're just not so nimble and...

00:55:02 - 00:00:00 ...able to just drop everything. Some runs do it really, really well. You know, we've seen that brands of stepped up a lot this year in some ways. There only that you are okay calling out, that you that you you admire, that you think I've done a decent job here. But as small or as big as it may be, I think, though, I'm there are a lot of brands who stuff stepped I was still in New York during the heart of the kind of aftermath of the George Floyd killing, and I think I saw there are brands, and you know they already had a foot in it, but brands like Ben and Jerry's who really kind of made a bit of a drive forwards. And there any programs or projects that you were involved with that you saw brands really sort of support doll down on? I'm actually working on a project the moment with absolute vodka, actually, and it's rather than it's not as necessarily kind of practively repairing the music industries, it were, but they're definitely addressing the audience who've really suffered from that lack of connection this year and we're creating a big New Year's Eve program which is about kind of dancing together as one and can't waving goodbye to two thousand and twenty and kind of trying to create as much human connection and authentic human connection as possible when we're all in our own houses. So you know, they're taking steps to kind of try and capture some kind of experience that upliss people and sets the next year off in a better way. Yeah, I'm also working with a brand in the US, a beer brands, not one of the big ones, but a smaller beer brands who are looking to they've kind of move their headquarters to a place in Texas and they're looking to really give back to the music industry there and rather than kind of land as a brand and kind of take over the city there, it's starting to we're working and working with them to pull together all kind of small local whether it's record shops, whether it's small music venues, and really kind of support and aligned with those guys and uplift them in the city. So there are there's definitely some brands I didn't do some nice things and I'm just really hopeful that some of these programs that we're putting together can really trigger some of the brands interaction and actually kind of get something off the ground that hopefully then propels others to jump on board and realize it's it's that that missing piece, I think, where there's that in understanding that if they don't act now, in the next few years, the culture that they've relied on so heavily just won't be there anymore. Yeah, yes, it was almost self preservation for themselves as much as anything else. Yeah, I'm many closing thoughts. My Mind's very focused and full of news of the vaccine and just hoping that. I'm just really hoping that all these you know, I just think back to my talking through my career with you now, so much as it has been, so much of the stories I have or so much of my experience through my whole career has been based around live and being with people and communities and it's, you know, whether it be at a festival or a tiny music venue somewhere or just like with people creating great things, and I think that this year, as you say, has been a huge leveler and I'm just really hopeful and excited about what's going to come out of the back of it and the fact that the people. You know, everyone's going to put all their and energy into creating some great experiences and getting things going again. It's yeah, yeah, all right, I agree, I think. I think certainly the appreciation of human connection, as it's something now that people are much more aware of. Yeah, it's people out of it. Yeah, and I think this why this second wave was been really challenging for people, because it's just people really, really need it more than ever. This has been going on for a long time now and I think the people that I look forward to saying how people bring it back in a really positive way next year. Yes, yeah, well, and I presumably a lot of any of the brand output will be about positivity and trying to inject that in, yeah, yeah, into the thoughts and minds of everybody out there. Very Good Bill. Thank you so much. Thanks me. Fascinating, really, really helpful. I really enjoyle chat. Yes, lovely. Thank you so much for having me see you on a dance plus. Doing well. Absolutely, there's a that's a great way to end. That's that good. Okay. So so it's my listeners. Thank you for listening. I welcome all feedback, comments and suggestions for to shows. My twitter and instagram handles are at Alex Branson and you hit to the website www dot CEO and you find a contact page there. You want to get in touch with the show and once again thank you to the incredible audio assassins for the music branding to the show in the show notes.